A veces te lías fuera de la plaza, y la dejas desatendida. Sin el alpiste del día, por así decir. Y es que siendo uno de esos ingenuos que creen que los problemas se deben de intentar enfocar medio racionalmente, lo intenta.

  1. plazaeme says:

    Hi, Simon. Why do you change a dynastic war into something different?

    the 300 year anniversary of Catalonia’s military annexation by Spain

    What exactly are you meaning by “Spain”? Ever read any historic text with the word “Spain” meaning something which does not include the old kingdom of Aragon?

    If not, how the hell could Spain annex something which was already Spain? Can you imagine Elizabeth I of England thinking of Barcelona as “not Spain”?

  2. plazaeme says:

    Simon, I think you could try to get some perspective.

    Let me tell you something about me. At least about what I am not. I am not a fascist. I would define myself as vaguely liberal (as we use this word in Spain). I am not a Spanish nationalist (or any sort of nationalist). I am not from Castille.

    There is nothing in your thesis about Catalonia you couldn’t say about many dozens of regions in Europe (and Spain itself). All the very democratic old institutions you mention in the history of Catalonia have their counterparts in many many other European regions. And, most of the nations you see in Europe now, come from the non voluntary and non voted union of disaggregated regions. They call it history.

    You may think Europe should be organized in some hundred nations / states. It’s an option. But you have a little problem. There is no World’s User Guide telling you exactly which nations / states, with a nice picture of their frontiers. So you will not have a happy paradise of mini nations, but something close to the endless wars of the Middle Ages.

    There is other option. I would call it a very democratic “nations à la carte“. I could sympathise with this idea, being liberal. But you can’t do it without some prior thinking about the principles of application. I suggest you Canada’s Clarity Act. There is a big deal of thought on this problem on it. Of very sensible thinking, I would say. Catalonian nationalists hate it. I wonder why.

    To make it short. Bring me a solution to your problem you can apply universally, and both ways. I’ll listen to you very carefully then.

    • I certainly don’t think either you or the majority of Spaniards are fascists and the politeness and moderation of your responses demonstrates this.

      However, there are many people who aren’t quite as moderate as you. I’ve been on the receiving end of insults for wearing a Barça shirt and speaking Catalan, and there are some very extreme views expressed in Spanish Nationalist forums, on TV channels such as Intereconomía or in newspapers such as ABC and La Razón.

      Although I’m sure you’re a liberal, I’ve looked at your blog and you have firmly positioned yourself in the anti-Catalan independence camp by reproducing the Ciutadans video accusing Pujol of being a fascist (who’s calling names now?) and the Facebook joke where Artur Mas promises that after independence Catalans will live 5% longer – very funny but not something I would post myself.

      It’s very clear to you where I’m coming from and very clear to me where you’re coming from. I’m sure we can respectfully agree to disagree.

      In my opinion Catalonia Is Not Spain … or hopefully, it won’t be very soon!

      PS: I’ve just had another look at your site and it appears that you’re an UpyD supporter (nuff said!) …. please correct me if I’m wrong!

      • plazaeme says:

        No, sorry, Simon. I don’t claim to be easy to understand. I am not positioned in the anti-Catalan independence camp. I am positioned in the anti-irrationality camp. I am afraid nationalism is always irrational. Sometimes very irrational. I was against Franco’s Spanish nationalism (which I suffered in the early part of my life), I am against Basque nationalism (which I do suffer now), and I am against Catalan nationalism (which I suffer by seeing clowns in Spanish politics about every day). And I am against them all for the very same reason. Totalitarianism. They tell you what to think, what to feel, in which language to speak, and when and how you are a “good” or “bad” national fellow.

        Yes, there are extreme views in both camps. The difference is today it almost doesn’t exist Spanish nationalism. I don’t see any Spaniard trying to bee a “good Spaniard”, or “very Spaniard”. Just like a normal Frenchman, or an Englishman, they usually tray to be good fathers, plumbers, lovers, whatever; but not good Spaniards. They wouldn’t know how to be good Spaniards, or the meaning of such an extravagance.This is not always the case in Vasquilandia, and certainly not in Catalunya.

        I have a problem with your idea of my blog showing Pujol’s disgusting video. Name calling, you say. The video doesn’t call any name. Just a voice-over with some phrases from Pujol.

        http://plazamoyua.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/abc-sevilla-31-01-97-pag-33.pdf

        Is it my fault Pujol’s speech is quite comparable to an anti Jew Hitler’s speech? I don’t think so. I am just trying to point where irrationality can lead.

        And the same think works with Arthur Mas stupidities.

        OK, you wouldn’t post such things. But I do, and I will keep doing it. I don’t see any point or reason to be polite with those who are clearly (and historically demonstrated) public dangers.

        But you didn’t answer my question, Simon. Many people in Catalunya want a secession from Spain. Many don’t. You can tray to look for a solution. If it is rational and civilized, it will be a universal solution (for every similar case), and it will work both ways. A way to a non civilized and non rational solution is what Mas is doing: Deceiving and pressing with social violence to achieve his pet solution.

        You choose.

      • plazaeme says:

        Please, address my point, Simon. Do you have any problem with Canada’s Clarity Act? What problem?

        If not, we could agree on that.

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